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	<title>Comments on: Twins trade Liriano to White Sox for Escobar and Hernandez</title>
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	<link>http://aarongleeman.com/2012/07/30/twins-trade-liriano-to-white-sox-for-escobar-and-hernandez/</link>
	<description>Baseball news, insight and analysis from Aaron Gleeman</description>
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		<title>By: MickChuck</title>
		<link>http://aarongleeman.com/2012/07/30/twins-trade-liriano-to-white-sox-for-escobar-and-hernandez/comment-page-1/#comment-12621</link>
		<dc:creator>MickChuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2012 16:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aarongleeman.com/?p=79890#comment-12621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The only part of me that is disspointed about Liriano trade is the reaction from everyone.  If you remove the sterling season of 2006, which Frankie clearly is no longer that pitcher, you have a pitcher with a career ERA of 4.90 and a record that is 9 games under .500.  You basically have Edwin Jackson or worse.  
If you take a step back look at what Frankie really is at this point in career, it isn&#039;t that bad of a trade. 

If Don can turn him into functional pitcher again, then we need to take a long hard look at replacing our pitching coach--which might not be a bad idea anyway.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only part of me that is disspointed about Liriano trade is the reaction from everyone.  If you remove the sterling season of 2006, which Frankie clearly is no longer that pitcher, you have a pitcher with a career ERA of 4.90 and a record that is 9 games under .500.  You basically have Edwin Jackson or worse.<br />
If you take a step back look at what Frankie really is at this point in career, it isn&#8217;t that bad of a trade. </p>
<p>If Don can turn him into functional pitcher again, then we need to take a long hard look at replacing our pitching coach&#8211;which might not be a bad idea anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: mazeville</title>
		<link>http://aarongleeman.com/2012/07/30/twins-trade-liriano-to-white-sox-for-escobar-and-hernandez/comment-page-1/#comment-12513</link>
		<dc:creator>mazeville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aarongleeman.com/?p=79890#comment-12513</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Toby: You&#039;re kidding yourself if you think Liriano&#039;s trade value would get a &quot;bump&quot; with one start. It&#039;s certainly not going to bring in a sudden haul. The best that could happen is that some teams would get desperate. The problem with that is that there are a number of other pitchers on the market.

And if there was a potential bump, there would be an equal decline in value with a bad start. He could also get injured. They took the best offer they had. It sucks, especially because he&#039;s so talented.

In the end, we&#039;re talking about, at best, a bump up from marginal prospects to slightly less marginal prospects. None of the players were talking about in even the best case scenario is anywhere close to a difference maker. 

They got something. They got a pitcher who will likely be a lefty reliever. And they got a utility player with an extremely good glove. Not great. I&#039;m not exactly jumping for joy, either. But I think in this case the Twins should get the benefit of the doubt. They did what they had to do. 

Incidentally, I&#039;m 100 percent sure that, if you walked into Twins offices today and talked privately with the front office, they&#039;d say that they&#039;re disappointed with the return, too. 

Liriano was a risky asset. If I sold you a television, and told you that it only works from time to time, you&#039;d pay me less for it and then hope you can figure out how to fix the thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Toby: You&#8217;re kidding yourself if you think Liriano&#8217;s trade value would get a &#8220;bump&#8221; with one start. It&#8217;s certainly not going to bring in a sudden haul. The best that could happen is that some teams would get desperate. The problem with that is that there are a number of other pitchers on the market.</p>
<p>And if there was a potential bump, there would be an equal decline in value with a bad start. He could also get injured. They took the best offer they had. It sucks, especially because he&#8217;s so talented.</p>
<p>In the end, we&#8217;re talking about, at best, a bump up from marginal prospects to slightly less marginal prospects. None of the players were talking about in even the best case scenario is anywhere close to a difference maker. </p>
<p>They got something. They got a pitcher who will likely be a lefty reliever. And they got a utility player with an extremely good glove. Not great. I&#8217;m not exactly jumping for joy, either. But I think in this case the Twins should get the benefit of the doubt. They did what they had to do. </p>
<p>Incidentally, I&#8217;m 100 percent sure that, if you walked into Twins offices today and talked privately with the front office, they&#8217;d say that they&#8217;re disappointed with the return, too. </p>
<p>Liriano was a risky asset. If I sold you a television, and told you that it only works from time to time, you&#8217;d pay me less for it and then hope you can figure out how to fix the thing.</p>
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		<title>By: toby</title>
		<link>http://aarongleeman.com/2012/07/30/twins-trade-liriano-to-white-sox-for-escobar-and-hernandez/comment-page-1/#comment-12510</link>
		<dc:creator>toby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 19:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aarongleeman.com/?p=79890#comment-12510</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David: I was at that game too.

Mazeville: I absolutely do NOT assume that. I am saying: if he were bad again, SO WHAT? They didn&#039;t get anything of value.

But if he were good, two things happen. One: he was good, so his value gets a bump. You can argue it would be small. I disagree, but fine. However: Two: they actually come up against the deadline, and teams are forced to make real &quot;final offers&quot;.

If these two things added up to &quot;no better offer&quot; or even &quot;no offer, period,&quot; SO. WHAT?

They didn&#039;t get a worthwhile player for him. They got a pitcher with anemic milb strikeout rates and sky-high flyball rates. IOW, they got a guy who is overwhelmingly likely to be a terrible MLB pitcher. Just as he was in his sole run-out as a White Sox starter. Oh yes: and they got a fungible good glove, no-hit replacement player.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David: I was at that game too.</p>
<p>Mazeville: I absolutely do NOT assume that. I am saying: if he were bad again, SO WHAT? They didn&#8217;t get anything of value.</p>
<p>But if he were good, two things happen. One: he was good, so his value gets a bump. You can argue it would be small. I disagree, but fine. However: Two: they actually come up against the deadline, and teams are forced to make real &#8220;final offers&#8221;.</p>
<p>If these two things added up to &#8220;no better offer&#8221; or even &#8220;no offer, period,&#8221; SO. WHAT?</p>
<p>They didn&#8217;t get a worthwhile player for him. They got a pitcher with anemic milb strikeout rates and sky-high flyball rates. IOW, they got a guy who is overwhelmingly likely to be a terrible MLB pitcher. Just as he was in his sole run-out as a White Sox starter. Oh yes: and they got a fungible good glove, no-hit replacement player.</p>
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		<title>By: jfs</title>
		<link>http://aarongleeman.com/2012/07/30/twins-trade-liriano-to-white-sox-for-escobar-and-hernandez/comment-page-1/#comment-12507</link>
		<dc:creator>jfs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aarongleeman.com/?p=79890#comment-12507</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read the news of Francisco Liriano&#039;s trade early Sunday, and I was struck with a good amount of sadness. I was reminded that the Twins were truly a special team during the 2002-2010 seasons. Frankie&#039;s departure is yet another sign of change in the Twins&#039; roster. 

Ortiz, Pierzynski, Koskie, Hunter, Radke, Santana, Redmond, Jones, Thome, Crain, Kubel, Cuddyer, and Nathan are just a few former players who made the Twins exciting and gave the team its character over the last decade. And now Liriano.

The Twins are no longer a small-market, low-revenue team. So, I found it odd that an extension for Liriano was not even offered.

I can&#039;t figure out the direction Terry Ryan wants to take with this current team. But, to be honest, many of us fans are losing interest. We were spoiled with very good teams during 2002-2010. The current Twins just don&#039;t inspire much of anything.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the news of Francisco Liriano&#8217;s trade early Sunday, and I was struck with a good amount of sadness. I was reminded that the Twins were truly a special team during the 2002-2010 seasons. Frankie&#8217;s departure is yet another sign of change in the Twins&#8217; roster. </p>
<p>Ortiz, Pierzynski, Koskie, Hunter, Radke, Santana, Redmond, Jones, Thome, Crain, Kubel, Cuddyer, and Nathan are just a few former players who made the Twins exciting and gave the team its character over the last decade. And now Liriano.</p>
<p>The Twins are no longer a small-market, low-revenue team. So, I found it odd that an extension for Liriano was not even offered.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t figure out the direction Terry Ryan wants to take with this current team. But, to be honest, many of us fans are losing interest. We were spoiled with very good teams during 2002-2010. The current Twins just don&#8217;t inspire much of anything.</p>
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		<title>By: mike wants wins</title>
		<link>http://aarongleeman.com/2012/07/30/twins-trade-liriano-to-white-sox-for-escobar-and-hernandez/comment-page-1/#comment-12506</link>
		<dc:creator>mike wants wins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aarongleeman.com/?p=79890#comment-12506</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I too am a fan of Liriano, and will miss the times he just dominates. It&#039;s fun to watch great pitching.

As for the trade, it&#039;s over now. I just hope that the team realizes that to get value, you need to give up value. And, I think they need to trade for some legit pitching, so I hope they deal from strength and deal some OFing for some SPing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too am a fan of Liriano, and will miss the times he just dominates. It&#8217;s fun to watch great pitching.</p>
<p>As for the trade, it&#8217;s over now. I just hope that the team realizes that to get value, you need to give up value. And, I think they need to trade for some legit pitching, so I hope they deal from strength and deal some OFing for some SPing.</p>
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		<title>By: Kavan</title>
		<link>http://aarongleeman.com/2012/07/30/twins-trade-liriano-to-white-sox-for-escobar-and-hernandez/comment-page-1/#comment-12505</link>
		<dc:creator>Kavan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aarongleeman.com/?p=79890#comment-12505</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been reading this blog since 2005 and this is my first post....

I, for one, am a bit disappointed, but maybe for different reasons.  I wasn&#039;t expecting much of a return for Liraino, but I&#039;m pretty sure I&#039;m in small company when I say Liriano is (was) my favorite Twin.  I&#039;ll never forget his 2006 season when he was the best pitcher on a team that produced the Cy Young award winner.  When he took the mound that year you knew the Twins were going to  win, period.  I know he&#039;s never been the same but I love watching him pitch, you never know what you get, sometimes you get 3 innings of disaster, sometimes you get a no-hitter.  I also know that his inconsistency is difficult to manage but it was fun, I loved watching his slider when he was on.  I can&#039;t help but wonder what could have been if the pitching staff hadn&#039;t tried to get him to &#039;pitch to contact&#039; if those rumors are in fact true.  I understand it makes managerial sense to get rid of Liriano but I can&#039;t help being disappointed that he&#039;s gone.

I wish he hadn&#039;t gone to my least favorite team.  And I might be alone in saying this but I&#039;ll be a lifetime Liriano fan. I wish him the best, and if I could, I&#039;d thank him for the show he put on in 2006 that I&#039;ll never forget.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been reading this blog since 2005 and this is my first post&#8230;.</p>
<p>I, for one, am a bit disappointed, but maybe for different reasons.  I wasn&#8217;t expecting much of a return for Liraino, but I&#8217;m pretty sure I&#8217;m in small company when I say Liriano is (was) my favorite Twin.  I&#8217;ll never forget his 2006 season when he was the best pitcher on a team that produced the Cy Young award winner.  When he took the mound that year you knew the Twins were going to  win, period.  I know he&#8217;s never been the same but I love watching him pitch, you never know what you get, sometimes you get 3 innings of disaster, sometimes you get a no-hitter.  I also know that his inconsistency is difficult to manage but it was fun, I loved watching his slider when he was on.  I can&#8217;t help but wonder what could have been if the pitching staff hadn&#8217;t tried to get him to &#8216;pitch to contact&#8217; if those rumors are in fact true.  I understand it makes managerial sense to get rid of Liriano but I can&#8217;t help being disappointed that he&#8217;s gone.</p>
<p>I wish he hadn&#8217;t gone to my least favorite team.  And I might be alone in saying this but I&#8217;ll be a lifetime Liriano fan. I wish him the best, and if I could, I&#8217;d thank him for the show he put on in 2006 that I&#8217;ll never forget.</p>
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		<title>By: spoof bonser</title>
		<link>http://aarongleeman.com/2012/07/30/twins-trade-liriano-to-white-sox-for-escobar-and-hernandez/comment-page-1/#comment-12504</link>
		<dc:creator>spoof bonser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aarongleeman.com/?p=79890#comment-12504</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This just in:  Twins wait to trade players until value is rock bottom (see Delbert Young, Kevin Slowey, Jim Thome, insert other name here)  This patten keeps on a rolling and that is why Willingham is off the table.  Not a bad thing in light of the Twins scouting system.  GM&#039;s from around the league have to be trying to pull off some amazing trades with the Twins right now, get while the getting is good!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This just in:  Twins wait to trade players until value is rock bottom (see Delbert Young, Kevin Slowey, Jim Thome, insert other name here)  This patten keeps on a rolling and that is why Willingham is off the table.  Not a bad thing in light of the Twins scouting system.  GM&#8217;s from around the league have to be trying to pull off some amazing trades with the Twins right now, get while the getting is good!</p>
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		<title>By: mazeville</title>
		<link>http://aarongleeman.com/2012/07/30/twins-trade-liriano-to-white-sox-for-escobar-and-hernandez/comment-page-1/#comment-12503</link>
		<dc:creator>mazeville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 16:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aarongleeman.com/?p=79890#comment-12503</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Toby: Your argument assumes that Liriano has a good start. But what if he has a bad one? Also, most teams, including the White Sox, understand that one bad start is just that: one bad start. The problem wasn&#039;t the bad start. It was the fact that he&#039;s had so MANY of those bad starts. And one good start wasn&#039;t going to repair that reputation. It certainly wasn&#039;t going to suddenly propel his value. Look, I&#039;m disappointed at the return myself -- it&#039;s little more than a bag of balls and an expired ticket to the Illinois State Fair. But it IS better than nothing. And at this point, we just have to accept it. If you wanted more in a trade of Liriano, you should argue that the Twins should have traded in spring training 2011 when his value was highest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Toby: Your argument assumes that Liriano has a good start. But what if he has a bad one? Also, most teams, including the White Sox, understand that one bad start is just that: one bad start. The problem wasn&#8217;t the bad start. It was the fact that he&#8217;s had so MANY of those bad starts. And one good start wasn&#8217;t going to repair that reputation. It certainly wasn&#8217;t going to suddenly propel his value. Look, I&#8217;m disappointed at the return myself &#8212; it&#8217;s little more than a bag of balls and an expired ticket to the Illinois State Fair. But it IS better than nothing. And at this point, we just have to accept it. If you wanted more in a trade of Liriano, you should argue that the Twins should have traded in spring training 2011 when his value was highest.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://aarongleeman.com/2012/07/30/twins-trade-liriano-to-white-sox-for-escobar-and-hernandez/comment-page-1/#comment-12501</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 15:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aarongleeman.com/?p=79890#comment-12501</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Terry Ryan is an old school GM in a new school world.  I think the Twins needs to hire a new GM from outside the organization, maybe the Rays asst GM?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terry Ryan is an old school GM in a new school world.  I think the Twins needs to hire a new GM from outside the organization, maybe the Rays asst GM?</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://aarongleeman.com/2012/07/30/twins-trade-liriano-to-white-sox-for-escobar-and-hernandez/comment-page-1/#comment-12500</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2012 14:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aarongleeman.com/?p=79890#comment-12500</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[He was gone anyway, didn&#039;t expect top prospects for him. Maybe they turn into Punto, Duensing 2.0 that&#039;d be better than a poke in the eye.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He was gone anyway, didn&#8217;t expect top prospects for him. Maybe they turn into Punto, Duensing 2.0 that&#8217;d be better than a poke in the eye.</p>
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