November 12, 2011

Twins sign middle infielder Jamey Carroll to two-year, $7 million contract

Terry Ryan's first significant move in his second go-around as general manager was to fill the Twins' gaping middle infield hole by signing Jamey Carroll to a two-year, $7 million contract. In assessing inexpensive shortstop options last week in this space I endorsed offering Carroll a one-year deal. Handing out multi-year contracts to 38-year-old middle infielders generally isn't a smart idea, but the money is reasonable enough and for 2012 at least Carroll is a good fit.

Carroll was stuck in the minors until age 28 and began his big-league career as a utility man, but he's gotten better and expanded his role with age. He's coming off the two best seasons of his career at ages 36 and 37, batting .290 with a .368 on-base percentage in 279 games for the Dodgers while posting a strong 122-to-98 strikeout-to-walk ratio, going 22-for-26 stealing bases, and splitting time between shortstop and second base.

Carroll's power is non-existent, with 12 homers in 1,065 games and an Isolated Power of .070 that ranks third-lowest among all active players with at least 2,000 plate appearances ahead of only Cesar Izturis and Juan Pierre. Obviously a middle infielder with power would be ideal, but the Twins botched that with J.J. Hardy and Carroll's on-base skills stand out. In fact, his .356 OBP ranks seventh among all active middle infielders with 2,000 plate appearances:

Derek Jeter         .383
Hanley Ramirez      .380
Chase Utley         .377
Dustin Pedroia      .373
Yunel Escobar       .366
Troy Tulowitzki     .364
JAMEY CARROLL       .356
Ian Kinsler         .355
Carlos Guillen      .355
Rickie Weeks        .354

That's some pretty great company for Carroll and his OBP during the past four seasons is even higher at .362, including yearly marks of .359, .379, .355, and .355. And he doesn't just get on base, he grinds out long at-bats too. Carroll saw 4.28 pitches per plate appearance this year, which tied Jose Bautista for sixth in all of baseball, and he also ranked fifth in 2010 and ninth in 2009. That's remarkable patience considering pitchers aren't afraid to throw him strikes.

Ron Gardenhire goes out of his way to bat a middle infielder No. 2 in the lineup whether they have a decent OBP or not, so the fact that Carroll actually gets on base, takes tons of pitches, and makes tons of contact is a nice bonus. He's also a right-handed batter who's hit .292 with a .371 OBP versus left-handed pitching during the past three seasons, making Carroll a nice fit breaking up the left-handed bats of Denard Span, Joe Mauer, and Justin Morneau.

Signing a middle infielder whose primary strengths are working counts and getting on base is a big step in the right direction for the Twins and Carroll's on-base skills are legitimately good, not just good compared to other middle infielders. For instance, he's posted a higher on-base percentage than Michael Cuddyer in each of the past four years. With that said, Carroll's lack of power is certainly an issue and both his age and defense are concerns on a two-year deal.

Apparently the Twins plan to use Carroll as their everyday shortstop and he's never done that before, although he did make 105 starts and log 1,078 innings at shortstop over the past two seasons. He also graded out as exactly average during that time according to Ultimate Zone Rating. Of course, for a 38-year-old average can quickly turn into below average and very few shortstops throughout baseball history have remained strong defenders at Carroll's age.

Age also puts him at risk for a rapid decline at the plate, particularly since speed and hand-eye coordination are major factors in Carroll's offensive game. Zero power is easy to live with in a solid defensive shortstop with a .350 on-base percentage, but if Carroll's range and OBP slip he'll either have to shift to second base with Alexi Casilla sliding back to shortstop or move to a bench role for which he'd be overpaid.

This isn't a signing that will excite an already frustrated fan base and if father time catches up to Carroll the Twins will regret giving him a two-year contract, but he's been worth significantly more than $3.5 million per season in each of the past four years, has shown no sign of decline so far and is better at 38 than he was at 28, has been on the disabled list once in 10 seasons, and kills two birds with one stone as a middle infielder and No. 2 hitter.


  1. This is a GREAT move. Even if he declines in the 2nd year of the contract, 3.5 million is not a bad price for a utility infielder. That is less than we paid for LNP a few years back, and he never put together two years anything like Carrol. I cannot believe we have a number 2 hitter who SHOULD be a number 2 hitter.

    Comment by Gamescrows — November 11, 2011 @ 6:56 pm

  2. I’ll give it a mild thumbs up. Not a huge price, the kind of guy that fits in with how Gardy will use him, some risk. But, not a bad choice, given the options.

    Comment by mike wants wins — November 11, 2011 @ 7:17 pm

  3. There are several things which I like about this signing. Carroll’s on-base and plate-discipline skills are near the top of the list. He still appears to be a solid defender. His price tag is affordable. If he defies his age for two seasons, the Twins can bring along Dozier and/or Michaels (who already has four years of major-college ball on his resume) gradually. He does very well against left-handers, so if Gardy can learn the fine art of platooning, Carroll can get a day off against tough righties. What I probably like most (thanks Aaron for pointing it out) is his ability to work a count. Also, if he bats in the second spot, he may score a few runs ahead of Mauer, Morneau, and maybe Cuddyer and Kubel. Good signing TR!

    Comment by jfs — November 11, 2011 @ 7:17 pm

  4. This does mean the Twins get to do what they love to do, and keep a guy in the minors that might be ready for the majors. The Rochester fans must love this signing, as now Dozier is stuck in AAA for at least 1 year, maybe 2.

    Comment by mike wants wins — November 11, 2011 @ 7:44 pm

  5. I predict a huge bust. One year (if that) and out.

    Comment by Pedro Munoz — November 11, 2011 @ 7:58 pm

  6. A low-risk move, and that’s about it. Better than Nishi and shows that Ryan will push low-achievers.

    Comment by funoka — November 11, 2011 @ 8:05 pm

  7. I have a bad feeling about this one. Usually I’d love this kind of move (finally a guy that works counts!), but I think it’s the age (38 this spring) and my thought that a righty with NO power just isn’t going to maintain a .340 BABIP and 10% walk rate like he has over the last 3 years. Even at a decent .300 BABIP, his OBP could drop to under .320 in a hurry. Not saying he’ll enter Adam Everett or Brendan Harris territory, but I think his last 3 years are the absolute high upside, and the downside could be ugly (.250/.300/.300 with declining range).

    On the plus side, he hardly ever pops up, so that’s a big part of the BABIP success. But neither does Elvis Andrus, and he’s only managed a .312 career BABIP while being (presumably) faster.

    Comment by Brian — November 11, 2011 @ 8:30 pm

  8. It seems Carroll has had to work for what he’s gotten, over his whole career. I like that.

    Comment by jfs — November 11, 2011 @ 8:50 pm

  9. I think I like it more now….This leaves them $20-30MM to fix one OF position, one starting pitcher position (I assume Duensing goes to the pen, and Perkins is your closer), DH and the bullpen. It also allows them to not rush Dozier, which they just did not want to do (even if I might have risked it personally). If you put Parmalee at 1B/DH, you still have $19-29MM. They should be able to get a legit SP option and a bullpen for that and probably a decent OF to play while Benson spends half a year at AAA.

    Comment by mike wants wins — November 11, 2011 @ 8:59 pm

  10. Since Carroll has a high OBP Gardenhire is certain to bat him in the #9 spot!

    Comment by Ben — November 11, 2011 @ 9:00 pm

  11. Past me is astonished that the Twins managed to sign a high-OBP infielder, but even more astonished that present me hates the move. This is the same sort of managing as if everything is going to work out that got the Twins in big trouble in 2011. It’s a perfectly reasonable move if Span, Morneau, and Mauer all return to their previous form and Liriano becomes a good pitcher again. If not, this cellar-dwelling team has just spent $7m and 2500 innings on a move that will bring zero benefit to the next good Twins team.

    I was hoping Smith was fired because he wasn’t willing to rebuild, but now it looks like he may have been fired because he was.

    Comment by Tim — November 11, 2011 @ 9:07 pm

  12. The problem with the concept of rebuilding is the Twins are short on tradable assets. So it makes sense to add someone like Carroll to bridge the gap to the next prospect at that position.

    If they only made moves like that I’d understand the complaints, but as an opening move it seems fine to me.

    Comment by Gendo — November 11, 2011 @ 11:18 pm

  13. I like it. Low cost/low risk, can get on base from the two hole, competent defender, good makeup guy to satisfy the ‘old school’ Twins way, will push the other guys fighting for jobs. Might not be an ideal everyday SS but compared to the clearly non-ideal non-everyday SS we had last year it’s a big step up, and he’ll be a good bridge to Dozier/Michaels.

    Comment by Elvus — November 11, 2011 @ 11:35 pm

  14. I would have prefered a one year deal, 2nd year will probably prove to be a mistake.

    Comment by scot — November 11, 2011 @ 11:56 pm

  15. Agree with Tim, Brian, and Pedro.

    This team won’t be competitive next year. The Twins admitted as much by announcing the reduced payroll. And if they were to contend, the chance that a 38 year old shortstop would help them win seems pretty small.

    If they don’t contend next year, that makes Carroll a placeholder, as some previous posts suggested. Some also suggested $7 mil/2 yrs. is a relative bargain for a guy like Carroll.

    My question is this: if his job is just to burn AB’s until Dozier (really?) or someone else arrives, and his contribution is therefore essentially meaningless, how on earth is $7 million a bargain? He doesn’t even bring name recognition to help sell tickets to rubes who think the team is overhauled and ready to contend.

    Comment by WTF? — November 12, 2011 @ 12:32 am

  16. With an Adam Everett look-alike, the Twins might be looking for another Mike Lamb to get us all excited. I was hoping to see ‘real’ rebuilding and giving some kids like Dozier a legitimate shot.

    Comment by Pat McGauley — November 12, 2011 @ 7:21 am

  17. I think it is a good start to the off-season. I certainly didn’t want them to sit around and do nothing. Many were hoping LNP would come back despite his horrible bat. Carroll is much better option then LNP. The Twins ONLY hope of contention is for Span, Morneau, Liriano, and Maurer to return to form. And as others have said a surprise or two. Like a Kevin Slowey regaining his knack for winning games and getting good support. Valencia playing like he did his rookie season. And a rookie like Bensen,Hermann, Dozier or Parmalee coming up and playing a role. Alot of ifs, but this is still a winnable division.

    Comment by Rick — November 12, 2011 @ 10:02 am

  18. The SS market is pretty crap this year, so expecting the Twins to be able to sign their long-term solution for the position was fairly unrealistic. This is a relatively low-risk move that has fairly good upside. It fits for what the manager is going to do anyways, as Aaron notes. Carroll will almost certainly bat #2, but at least he’s a RH bat slotting between Span & Mauer who has a high OPB. he’s a fairly low-error guy (while still being a solid overall defender) which will keep the manager happy too.

    The contract is affordable whether he plays SS or 2B and it’s possible the option for a 3rd year could play nicely for the Twins if he doesn’t regress badly as he gets older (easing into a utility role if other options become available).

    It’s not the bold move some people would like to see, but it’s a solid one that shores up a hole. a .280/.350/.350 line doesn’t sound like much, but it’d be a significant upgrade for the Twins (which is a bit gross, but tells you how things went in the middle last season), is very realistic and should provide solid defensive play up the middle.

    Comment by Josh — November 12, 2011 @ 11:34 am

  19. The Twins weren’t going to promote Dozier from AA. It isn’t their style. They just are the most conservative organization in MLB at promoting players (study on line showed this). So, if you aren’t promoting Dozier and you have no other choice (assuming you don’t trust Plouffe), what is the better alternative to this signing?

    Comment by mike wants wins — November 12, 2011 @ 12:15 pm

  20. I would like to see the Twins take another step in the same direction. More smart, veteran depth for the infield. Cheaply. Maybe Punto.

    Comment by jfs — November 12, 2011 @ 12:19 pm

  21. Two things:

    1. This is a relatively cheap signing, and thus also relatively low risk. I like it especially when comparing it to what is out there. For those that don’t, what’s your alternative?

    2. I’m also not clear why this hurts Dozier’s chances of being called up. NIshi, Casilla, and Plouffe are definitely not sure things, and my guess is that Plouffe ends up in the outfield. Additionally, the only reason, imo, it’s worth promoting him is if he’s going to get the chance to play every day. So if he’s not the clear choice to start in the middle infield, you may as well allow him a full season of at bats in AAA.

    Comment by Alex — November 12, 2011 @ 5:55 pm

  22. This is a very smart way to start the offseason. It plugs one gaping hole relatively cheaply. Terry Ryan will have most of his money and the entire rest of the season to spend improving the pitching staff, deciding what he wants to do with his catchers, etc. Carroll is old, but the Twins may actually have a couple of up and comers in the MIF, and if they are ready soon, they can phase in for Carroll during the latter half of the deal.

    Comment by Adam — November 12, 2011 @ 7:07 pm

  23. It’s ludicrous to discuss the merits of the Carroll signing without stating what you think the goal of the organization is or should be for 2012.

    If you feel the Twins should/will rebuild, explain why they should spend $7 million (instead of, say $2 mil./2 yrs) on a placeholder/stopgap sort of guy (especially one who’s 38) when that placeholder’s contribution is essentially irrelevant.

    If you feel the Twins should/will contend despite shaving $15 million or so off the payroll, explain how. Thumbnail sketch. We’ll assume you’re counting on M&M/Span/Baker to be healthy; just take it from there. Make us believe. Good luck.

    If you feel that the Twins should/will strive to achieve the mediocrity of an 80-ish win season, and that Carroll helps reach that goal, you win. Carroll is the perfect signing. Now you just need to write a short essay either about why a franchise would do that, or why you’d want them to, and in either case, why you’d be a fan of that franchise. Ready…Go!

    Comment by WTF? — November 12, 2011 @ 11:05 pm

  24. I agree WTF. I’m not a fan of that kind of franchise. And no longer one who thinks division titles are OK with no hope of advancing. Anyone who thinks playoffs are unpredictable is an idiot.

    Comment by brian — November 13, 2011 @ 4:14 am

  25. There’s no one player that the Twins can pick up that will help them go from a 99 loss season to a 90 win season.

    I highly doubt that Carroll is their first step in a “rebuilding plan.” I’m assuming they’re trying to contend for a division title and make the playoffs. To do that, they have several needs and can’t afford to sign a big name at a single position. They’re going to be signing 4-5 players and hope that more than half provide better production at the position than they received last year. Carroll very likely makes them better in the middle infield. Check. Now move on to the next.

    Obviously, all of this has to assume that our three key players play healthier than last season, though hopefully they’ll still pick up a guy like Doumit (looks like he’s going for around 8 million, though, and that’s a bit high) who can be ready to step in if one of them isn’t healthy.

    We’re really not sure where they are going in terms of payroll and we’ll see if they actually do cut it (especially by 15 million). Everyone’s taking one line from Ryan’s press conference as gospel, but we don’t know if a payroll that’s “south of last year” is $1 million or $20 million less

    Either way, the basic reasons rebuilding would be ridiculous for next season are they have few, if any, young players in their own system that look promising, that players that in the past had good trade value probably don’t right now because they’re coming off of injuries (Mauer, Morneau, Span, Baker), had horrible seasons (Liriano), or are free agents (Cuddyer, Kubel, Nathan).

    Comment by Alex — November 13, 2011 @ 9:44 am

  26. Um, brian, didn’t the Cardinals just win an upset or two in the playoffs. Call me an idiot for thinking the playoffs are unpredicable. We can’t all be smart like you, brian.

    Comment by birdofprey — November 13, 2011 @ 11:22 am

  27. Are the Twins capable of contending next year? If you think that a few players bouncing back after off years and a couple small pick-ups can get them to 90 wins, then signing a 38-year old player was a good idea.

    If you think that the Twins need to re-tool the whole operation and are at least 2 or 3 years away, then this is a terrible signing. Caroll may be better then what we had this year (although it looks like Mike Lamb to me) but as a rebuilding team, we are better off giving playing time to guys like Plouffe and Dozier, even if it costs us wins in the short term.

    Comment by Pedro Munoz — November 13, 2011 @ 11:34 am

  28. Some of us are OK with watching a team that gives you about a 50-50 chance of seeing a win, as long as we see light at the end of the tunnel a year or two away. If Ryan makes a handful of moves, most of which involve improving the minor league talent pipeline while SIMULTANEOUSLY improving the on-field product in 2012, I’m happy. Lots of room for improvement is available from the current roster. So goodbye Michael and Jason, hello DeJesus or someone like that as a placeholder for Benson, et al. Let’s see a few more Jamey Carrol-like moves. And let’s watch some bona fide prospects get a year closer to the show during 2012. There is talent on the way.

    Comment by birdofprey — November 13, 2011 @ 11:41 am

  29. “Iā€™m not a fan of that kind of franchise. And no longer one who thinks division titles are OK with no hope of advancing. Anyone who thinks playoffs are unpredictable is an idiot.”

    This statement is just plain dumb.

    Just look at the no hope of advancing St. Louis Cardinals.

    25 baseball expers on ESPN predicted the results of the 2011 playoffs –

    How many predicted St. Louis would win the World Series – 0
    How many predicted St. Louis would win NLCS – 0
    How many predicted St. Louis would in NLDS – 0

    Clearly there is no such thing as “no hope of advancing” and playoff predictability. 87 Twins prove that too.

    Comment by Fishingmn — November 13, 2011 @ 11:45 am

  30. When it came to major trades and signings, Bill Smith was well below average. So, let’s hope the GM change brings a sharper focus on value. I like the first step, with the Carroll signing. Also, if a catcher like Olivo can be signed cheaply, do it. Olivo has power and a canon for an arm. I would also be interested in inexpensive, smart, veteran infielders who may not be tendered nor offered arbitration by their current teams (e.g. Punto, Hannahan). And, I like our own free agents, at reasonable costs. That said, I am optimistic for 2012 if key players are healthy. Mauer, Morneau and Baker are not getting any younger, so now is a good time to commit to winning.

    Comment by jfs — November 13, 2011 @ 1:33 pm

  31. good points above that Mauer & Morneau aren’t getting any younger, and the talent in the minor leagues is not impressive. Rebuilding means stocking up on youth to make a major run in a few years, or maybe five. No evidence our minor league players are a playoff team. And they’ve got tons of money committed to Mauer et al. The division’s winnable. THey’ve been gifted with a new stadium and big league revenue. THey simply can’t punt on the next three seasons if there’s no convincing case it’s to stock up on the playoffs in three years. THey have to surround their stars with league-average people, not the black holes of last year. They have to make a plausible case they’re going for the division next year and the year after. It requires some wishful thinking that their stars will be healthy. But if they are, and they are dragged down by horrible supporting cast, they’ve thrown that Mauer contract in the toilet, along with any remaining goodwill from their stadium-tax-paying fans.

    How they can do this while cutting payroll is a head-scratcher. In my opinion, there’s no justification for that given their revenue. It’s a betrayal of the stadium financing deal. That said if everyone’s injured anyway, why throw good money after bad. But if they’re healthy, and they pocket the stadium money instead of supporting their stars with non-minor-leaguers, they’ve lost on all fronts

    Comment by by jiminy — November 13, 2011 @ 2:17 pm

  32. Getting better in 2012 with a lower payroll is not that hard. Frankly, I’m not sure a platoon of Ploufee/Tosoni in RF wouldn’t be an upgrade over Cuddyer. Ther’e your payroll reduction.

    Comment by birdofprey — November 13, 2011 @ 2:58 pm

  33. Here it is in a nutshell.

    The only way the Twins can rebuild is by trading players like Morneau, Span, Liriano, (fill in the blank). The only way the Twins can trade these players for rebuilding players/prospects is for the previously mentioned players to have productive seasons.

    If they all have productive seasons, the team possibly contends. If they all are hurt and fail, the team flops but their trade value is nil.

    Comment by ML — November 13, 2011 @ 4:49 pm

  34. Twins cut $13M on payroll than spend $7M on a 38 year old that made $3.85M on his previous 2 year deal? How is that smart baseball economics?

    Comment by scot — November 13, 2011 @ 5:09 pm

  35. Many think Carroll is the best shortstop free agent out there not named Reyes or Rollins. He’s had two pretty impressive years since his last deal, and probably had other bidders for his services. How is this not justifiable baseball economics, scot?

    Comment by birdofprey — November 13, 2011 @ 6:07 pm

  36. also, you have to break the contract up by year: $7M over 2 is very different than $7M over 1. we weren’t going to get Reyes or Rollins, no matter how big some fans want to dream, so we had a hole that needed to be filled at SS. It’s a low risk signing that should help bridge the gap between when some of our prospects may be ready to play while putting a reasonable product in the field.

    The Twins can’t go into a full rebuilding mode, they have to re-tool on the fly, or risk seeing their attendance plummet. Maybe this team can’t jump back from 99 losses to 90 wins with moves like this, but they can get from 99 losses to 80 or so (with better health and a few bounceback years). That keeps fans engaged, coming to the park, and shows some hope for the future. Just getting competent MLB-quality players on the field more will make a big difference for this team.

    Comment by Josh — November 14, 2011 @ 12:07 am

  37. The playoffs in fact are unpredictable, and a mid-80s win season just might get you there in the AL Central — hard to say, but history says it’s possible. Carroll is the best of the rest, as mentioned, at SS, and frankly Rollins (significant decline in production and injuries) and Reyes (injuries) are incredible question marks in their own right. Not only that, but Carroll, if he can merely be an average shortstop, probably gives us 6 or 7 wins on what we got from last year’s shortstop, which shows just how terrible Nishi and Co. were (maybe even more wins when you consider just how much Twins pitchers rely on good defense).

    On cutting payroll and being competitive. I am not sure how you think it is impossible for the Twins to improve on last year while cutting payroll. Kubel, Mauer, Morneau, and Nathan were all MIA most of the season, and together they have about $55 million wrapped up between them. That doesn’t even include Cuddy and the $12.5 million of decent offense and average (at best) defense we got from him. There is a TON of room to improve on last year’s team, and that would be true if the team’s payroll were to be slashed to $60 million. It doesn’t get any worse than last year and a 99 loss team is not hard to improve on when there are $35 million of free agents coming off the book (Cuddy, Kubel, and Nathan), as well as $40 million worth of players returning (hopefully) from injuries. This analysis doesn’t even account for the possibility that Liriano, Slowey, etc. will rebound from their poor showings last year.

    Finally, the most ludicrous of all the suggested notions — that the Twins should be rebuilding right now. So we trade a healthy Mauer for a bucket of baseballs because of his contract (we’d also probably have to throw the other team some money for a few years too) and basically give up Morneau for a player to be named later between his contract and concussion/back issues, and we do this instead of hoping those players return to even shells of their former AL MVP selves, AND we do this INSTEAD of signing an average shortstop to a $7 million commitment!?!?!?!? That is honestly the most absurd idea I have ever heard coming from this website. I know it was not Gleeman saying this, but normally the commenters on here display a little bit more baseball wisdom. I hope that returns for these guys in the near future. I am looking at you Pedro Munoz. You are a consistent commenter on this board and frankly should know better than to make some of the comments you did here earlier.

    Let’s pull it together. There’s a lot of work to do but not all is lost.

    Comment by Sean — November 14, 2011 @ 1:43 pm

  38. Wow Sean, just wow. Its one thing to disagree with the idea that the Twins should be rebuilding, but to call the idea ludicrous and absurd and to call me out by name for my lack of baseball wisdom? That I should know better than to suggest that a team that won 63 fucking games last year should be rebuilding? You are totally right, dude, all of those players are going to come back and have great years, and with the help of our newly acquired 38-year old part-time shortstop, the Twins will win it all and then ride unicorns down Nicollet Mall for the victory parade.

    Comment by Pedro Munoz — November 14, 2011 @ 2:41 pm

  39. Just think it through dude. The options are clearly before you. The Twins have Mauer, Morneau, Liriano, Baker, and Span in their prime AND (for the most part) under HUGE, long term contracts. None of them will get their maximum value on the trade market. So the choice is to either hope those guys can come back and be some semblance of themselves, and bring in some average pieces to play around them, or sell those guys for complete crap and hope for some really good number 1 draft choices for the next few years as we perenially lose 115 games a year without any of those players on our roster. I get it, those guys are not the perfect choice for players to build around, given their injury/effectiveness questions. But if they all can be healthy, that is a championship caliber core whose oldest player (Morneau) will turn 31 years-old this upcoming season. To be certain, any rebuilding project would be a massive success if it ended up with 5 players as good as those 5 on the roster and in their prime at the same time. So why rebuild when you’ve already got what you are trying to build in the first place? Restock the bullpen with some cheap effective signings, bring in a couple of guys like Carroll, and maybe even spend a little in the free agent market on an Oswalt-type starter. That’s probably wishful thinking, but the Carroll signing at least makes it possible because it at least adequately fills a massive hole with only $3.5 million of the payroll, and with all the money coming off of it (Capps, Nathan, Kubel, Cuddy, Delmon), that leaves plenty to play with, even with a $15 million cut.

    You’re right I shouldn’t have called you out. That was my bad. I really was surprised by your take on it. I normally think you make great points so I was surprised to hear you say something that I, at least, think is not very helpful. I apologize.

    Comment by Sean — November 14, 2011 @ 10:54 pm

  40. I appreciate the apology, and to be honest I wasn’t really offended. I dish it out sometimes so I should be able to take it. My response to your call out was a little harsh, so my apologies to you as well. We’re all good.

    Comment by Pedro Munoz — November 15, 2011 @ 10:59 am

  41. Sean, that’s basically what I wrote in about 200 less words. šŸ˜‰

    Comment by ML — November 15, 2011 @ 8:24 pm

  42. Yeah I agree ML, but it seemed that it didn’t resonate so I wanted to elaborate. Again, our corps is not perfect, but it’s pretty damn good when it’s healthy/playing up to expectations. Plus, the alternative is far, far worse — 100+ loss seasons and nothing substantial in return except for a lower payroll. That sounds a lot like the 1990s to me minus 1991, and quite frankly I’d take an outside chance of being competitive over that any day.

    Comment by Sean — November 16, 2011 @ 5:11 pm

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